Type the actual card name and number like - 4 Thraben Inspector then after the entire decklist add "[ deck][ /deck]" Before and after the text (ignore my added space inside the bracket) So like this:
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Congratulations on the 5-0, could you provide a little context for what exactly you played against and how the matches went? Were you lucky or unlucky in certain situations, and how might this affect your play in the future? What sideboard cards impressed you, which were lacklustre, and how do you think the synergies you were intending fit into the way things developed? These kinds of considerations are generally helpful for everyone, including the person posting, to contextualize the results. Not all 5-0 results are the same, and there are many useful things to be learnt even from 0-5 performances, so knowing more about how cards, strategies, or attitudes actually lined up in matches is what I try to emphasize.
Where decklists and cards are concerned, I can confirm Natesroom's comment, or even more simple is to use the icons that are found in the toolbar of the "Reply to this Topic" section at the bottom of the page. Should this be confusing there is within a darker gray area, above the space in which to write, a series of editorial images below the warning to respect the terms of service which extends partway across the page - I will recreate their groupings below:
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One small quirk is that the spelling of cards must be exact down to the character when using the fourth from last of these, as will be demonstrated in the difference between Zap and Zap. In the second of these, I put an extra space before the capital "z", which the program will not recognize - resulting in a link such as the one above here^^^^^, whereas the first functions as intended to display the chosen image. Spelling mistakes are also apt to produce the same result, so when in doubt be sure to use the blue "preview" function below and to the right of the working text box to display a read-only copy of your current post which will produce exactly what you have generated up until that point. You are free to ignore capitalization if you wish, however (though I personally think that this is an Abomination unto the Gods of Proper English Writing). Once you become familiar with the shorthand, you will sometimes find it expedient to write out some individual codes yourself, which has very graciously been allowed for by the word processing, but in general these icons are of excellent utility.
On to your decklist, then! You have created an excellent environment for Lurrus of the Dream-Den, and your high density of self-replacing effects seems to have allowed you to trim on lands and relevantly to have displaced some of your copies of Sun Titan. Have you found yourself being hit more severely by graveyard hate as a result? I find that early game threats that exploit recursion are a liability post-board, where you are rewarding their Rest in Peace effects early in the game rather than passively discouraging it by making it dead in more circumstances. (By this I mean, essentially, are the 3/2 legendary lifelinking bodies pulling their weight in general?) I have a personal aversion to Mishra's Bauble in a deck trying to play "Mainphase Magic" as well, but in your list it seems less relevant than usual because of your aforementioned number of cantrip effects. How clean have you found your mana curve to be, specifically at the 2 and 3 mana points?
Speaking of Mana, as I move to your sideboard I would like to ask how many spells Void Mirror countered for you, and whether the anti-synergy with your Baubles ever came up. I had made note of it as a possible sideboard card, but it seemed a little too narrow in its coverage. If you have the time as well, could you detail how relevant you found Deicide? I assume it is primarily for Heliod, Sun-Crowned, but feel free to mention any other relevant targets which came up or were in mind when you added the card.
Congratulations again, and I look forward to your response!
Thanks everyone for the welcome and tips!
I recorded all my matches, so I can review them later for more detail as I am currently at work, but I'll try to remember how I boarded/played.
I found that the curve was nice, I didn't have too many plays I wanted to make on turn 1, and found that lurrus was only sometimes a "3 drop", and got most of Lurrus's value on turn 5 by bringing back SFM or Wall.
R1 was GW enchantments. I was on the play and led with thraben inspector into SFM fetching kaldra, into playing kaldra turn 3 with a tapped land. That curve seems to work, tapped land on 1 and or 3 allows for SFM and SFM activation turns 2 and 3. I used a field of ruin to clean up some utopia sprawls and abundant growths later, and had a solitude evoke to remove that new 0/2 mana creature to get in. They found solitary confinement with shroud at 5 life and 1 card in hand, but i had a verdict to clean up their Sethis (and keep kaldra). Game 2 I had turn 2 and 3 seal of cleansings into lurrus for more seals.
My boarding here was:
+2 Seal of Cleansing
+1 deicide
-1 supreme verdict
-1 remorseful cleric
-1 mortarpod
R2 was UR Prowess. Game 1 I had turn 1 thraben inspector into turn 2 SFM getting batterskull. They had removal for SFM, so I played wall of omens and path on turn 3, and a verdict on 4 and batterskull on 5. They kind of went heavy on their creatures instead of card advantage spells, so the verdict left them with not much in hand. The BSkull just kind of went the whole way.
+2 santifier en-vec
+3 aether gust
-1 remorseful cleric
-4 spreading seas
G2 I had a turn 1 inspector, turn 2 sanctifier and just bricked their creatures. They tried to get around it by playing more creatures into it, but I had a verdict to clean up. Had a lurrus and SFM fetching batterskull to follow the wrath and they struggled for a few turns but didn't have much gas. I feel they had bad draws, as I've known UR prowess to grind well with large amounts of damage and that just didn't happen.
R3 was against amulet titan and I was on the play. I went thraben inspector into sfm into kaldra, and kept them from sticking a titan with solitude and Path. I think I got in for lethal right on the turn before I would have lost to Titan + Dryad + Valakut.
+4 aether gust
+3 aven mindcensor
+1 seal of cleansing
-1 thraben inspector
-4 spreading seas
-1 supreme verdict
-1 remorseful cleric
-1 mortarpod
G2 I tapped out for turn 2 SFM with solitude as backup and my opponent went triple amulet into triple titan and gave all 3 haste.
G3 they played turn 3 dryad, and I EOT cast Aven mindcensor so they cast summoners pact in response. I untapped and Field of ruined their Simic Growth chamber, then seal of cleansing'd their urza's saga and they couldn't pay for pact.
R4 was against BW Griefblade with mainboard Sorin, solemn visitor. They played a turn 2 SFM and fetched kaldra, so I evoked solitude to clear it, then played SFM and fetched my own Kaldra. They then pathed my SFM, and then went for 4 mana sorin, which i basically ignored because they just downticked it twice to make 2 vampires. I had a verdict, and then a solitude hardcasted on a dauthi voidwalker. They followed up with a solitude on my solitude, then inquisitioned me and saw sun titan 2 lands and conceded.
+2 sanctifier
+1 seal of cleansing
-1 remorseful cleric
-1 mortarpod
-1 supreme verdict
G2 i think they were stuck on lands with a silent clearing and a fetid heath, and i seas'd their clearing, then followed up with a quick clock.
R5 was against Mono W Death and Taxes. G1 they were stuck on lands and i was able to get kaldra off early. I used mortarpod effectively in this game to kill a vialed in Flickerwisp that bounced my kaldra token, and I had a 3/3 illusion from their skyclave that hit my lurrus. I then played a few creatures in and sacrificed them to mortarpod to close the game.
+2 seal of cleansing
+2 aven mindcensor
-4 spreading seas
G2 they were able to provide pressure after I kept a 5 land hand, then blew out a solitude evoke with a restoration angel and hit me for exactly lethal pretty quickly.
G3 I managed to get SFM going quickly into kaldra, and they were stuck on lands again as they mulled to 5. They played a wider board, so I used verdict to remove everything and keep my kaldra token around and they never found a flickerwisp.
So all in all, I'm pretty sure I just got lucky here. I never had emeria activate, and I never cast a sun titan. SFM did all the heavy lifting, but verdict was good, seas was good, and lurrus with bauble was actually pretty good too.
My SB was strange because i literally never brought in Void Mirror, and never really used remorseful cleric. I've been seeing a resurgence of heliod lately, so i wanted the deicide to turn off their combos. Dealing with a creature deck is much easier than a creature combo deck. I may also have had too much against Amulet Titan? But I've found that an aether gust at the right moment can be lights out.
It never came up, but spreading seas on urza's saga just kills it, and gives you the card draw trigger. I was hoping to abuse that interaction going into my league.
I think detention sphere was pretty bad in the main, but it felt like a necessity as a catch all.
Going forward, idk where i'll go with this list, any thoughts? I know that I cut mortarpod a lot, but it actually wasn't bad. I mainly included it because of all the reading i've done in this forum, and the amount of praise you all have given it.
Edit: I realized that I didn't touch on the recursive piece in lurrus vs RIP. I found that SFM was our threat that got around GY hate, and in mose cases opponents will bring in pieces to deal with that over lurrus, otherwise they may risk diluting their strategy too much. Lurrus is also just fine as a creature. Put batterskull on it and go to town.
Thank you very much for the additional detail! Your build seems solid, and as an alternative may drive towards a separate endgame where you maximize Lurrus of the Dream-Den even more (which might then incentivise reducing the copies of Emeria, the Sky Ruin). This may be very important, as it appears that the Lurrus/Bauble synergy is actually the most efficient raw card advantage engine in the format right now. My immediate candidates to support this would be to look at Selfless Spirit and Remorseful Cleric maindeck - moving some or all of the sweepers to the sideboard - while it might be much more viable for you to add a single Kami of False Hope for the soft-lock as supported by some copies of Ranger-Captain of Eos.
Staying on the theme of alternative cards, I would say that if Detention Sphere did not impress you you should try either Starstorm's Skyclave Apparition or the standby Teferi, Time Raveler, though this last card can never deal with Planeswalkers and the first is a liability against the current crop of Delve Creatures or any threats that go over the top (Primeval Titan,Niv-Mizzet Reborn, Teferi, Hero of Dominaria, etcetera). As far as Aether Gust is concerned, I think that it does a very good job at playing to the board when coming from behind in this shell, and so avoids being tarred with the purely reactive label which spells the "Countermagic Kiss of Death" in my opinion. I have had quite positive results with a singleton in the past, and it may be reasonably well-positioned moving forward. Four copies seems like an extreme amount, however, and I was shocked to read that you did not bring in all of them against your Prowess opponent, so I would agree that you are likely over-saturated on the effect. My immediate instinct is that Celestial Purge could find its way into your sideboard in some number to diversify a little on that front.
Your kind comments on Mortarpod are appreciated, it is a personal favourite of mine at establishing synergies while remaining a board-relevant topdeck and keeping Equipment counts high well into the lategame to ensure recursive Stoneforge Mystic value, but 1-toughness plays are comparatively rare currently, which takes a little of its shine away when it does not contribute to the removal suite. I was recently debating going down to 2 from 3, but I would be extremely reluctant to go any lower without other ways to keep the graveyard stocked when sweepers come out against Combo decks. Your frequent removal of the card makes me assume you are ending games well before recursion can run you out of targets, leading me back to my point from paragraph 1 of this response. Going back to the subject of the removal suite itself, were you able to form an impression of Solitude which might colour the impression of those who have not yet played with it? Where was it good, where bad, and do you think that you had it right with 3 copies?
A few things about the deck!
I think I agree that Lurrus is an avenue to be explored. That engine is just so strong. I'm unsure if selfless spirit is the way to go, but I'm sure its worth exploring. Mishra's bauble was actually quite good, you can use it on yourself to see if you want to shuffle the top card away with a fetchland or SFM, or make a different play and draw that card. I dont think it takes much away from our "sorcery speed-ish" style, as we can almost hide cards from thoughtseize decks by waiting until the opponents' turn to use it.
My main deck is actually Martyr utilizing abiding grace, so I'm very familiar with ranger captain of eos and kami of false hope. They may have utility here, but in my experience too often kami just eats a removal spell on your own end step.
About aether gust in the SB: i have been playing 4 because often you need it very early against the amulet titan decks, otherwise you just lose to their fast titans or the value they procure (after pathing a resolved one). I generally bring in less against prowess because i dont want to get stuck in a situation where my opponent has a stormwing entity i am unable to answer.
It may be correct to go down to 3, however.. I'm unsure.
I have played both Teferi Time Raveler and Skyclave apparition in this sort of shell in the past and found that they are good enough. Teferi could a good choice at the moment as well because of his interaction with cascade spells. That said, i found apparition very vulnerable, and often left pesky tokens that i had to spend resources dealing with later. I would much prefer to play skyclave apparition alongside ephemerate to try to extract maximum value from it, and that probably also means playing flickerwisp/charming prince, and i know how you feel about those.
I think at the moment i will continue to try the detention sphere and find out exactly what i don't like about it.
The solitudes were great. I came to the decision to play 3 because I had done some reading into the "stabilizing" theory of geist-honored monk. Solitude is basically that as its removal on flash etb with lifelink and a pretty cool body, and has a special other mode where you can use it early if you really need to use the panic button. I use it most often to answer early primeval titans, or stoneforge mystics that fetch kaldra, as those decks will never be able to hard cast it. You potentially could wait for them to put kaldra into play, but i dont want to also be surprised by a batterskull. As our deck is happy to draw lands, hard casting a solitude is wonderfully easy, and getting one back with emeria is gravy. I think 2 or 3 is probably a good number. I like them in multiples, but dont want to be too flooded.
Good points on the Mishra's Bauble synergies and their interaction with shuffle effects, I broadly agree. I think there is still a cost to be paid when you reach the lategame of "losing on board with no cards in hand" and simply need access to a spell or seventh Plains immediately, but this is heavily outweighed by the advantage that can be accrued early with it by Lurrus of the Dream-Den. There is a secondary concern as well which has to do with deck space to fit all the necessary effects in the grindier control shell, but since both of these are much more relevant to my own build preference I will leave things at that. Speaking of builds, however:
Fluff - I think it may be very important now to get at least one Lurrus build on the homepage, since the format seems most open to it rather than control. If you think your list was roughly viable, Plichow, would you be willing to support it for Fluff to make it available for all those seeking help with the strategy? I would immediately recommend going down to 2 Emeria, the Sky Ruin in it, since your recursion is set up earlier in other ways and the tapland is a more severe drawback in the early game, but you should also take the chance to make any adjustments that you find relevant now in pursuit of a preliminary list where the land plays more of a backup role.
Back to your list in particular, then, I have also invested some amount of time into an 80-card Yorion MartyrProc build, which works extremely well to re-trigger Ranger-Captain of Eos and Ranger of Eos in setting up the Kami lock while fuelling white spells in hand to feed Martyr of Sands, and you will forgive me, I hope, if I think that you may find that your initial sentiment about its death in end-step to removal is a little off-base here. The applications of the Kami's Fog effect takes on a very different texture when it is used to back up pressure rather than relied on for staying alive. I may be wrong about how your list actually finishes its games, but having access to an alternative soak for removal to stretch opponents seems as though it may be beneficial to give you a unique advantage in racing situations, while providing a very reasonable fail-case alternative "out" to lethal damage in other contexts.
Other contexts being in question, then, I think that the interaction between Lurrus and immediate Flicker effects like Ephemerate is noteworthy, where being able to put in a new "Lurrus" object for game rules purposes allows multiple graveyard rebuys, while providing protection or interaction in many other ways, and obviously having an extremely powerful additional dynamic with Solitude. If I again take off my "Emeria Attrition/Control" googles, this is something I think definitely warrants testing, and may bring Charming Prince and Flickerwisp back into the picture as viable effects (the first of these already having synergy with the Legend). The "end-step" clause on the two creatures is - as with Glimmerpoint Stag in my original Standard deck - an unfortunate one in many respects, but they have a great deal of value to offer in the right shell. Perhaps this is leaning too far into things, but I would not be surprised if this were just a few too many powerful synergies to ignore.
As a final note, I may need to ask how exactly you see the Titan matchup being "Aether Gust or bust" early on, since despite being unfavourable I think of the matchup as a winnable one with zero copies of the card in my 75. Am I overstating your position on the card, or is there possibly some dynamic that I am taking advantage of better in my build? I thought that you would certainly have a much easier time with 4 Spreading Seas and better early aggression than me maindecked, but perhaps I misjudged something? I suppose missing out on the extra Ghost Quarter and the Crucible of Worlds might account for some of that, but I wanted to check in case it was anything else.
Let me know how you all feel, and best of luck to everyone with your testing!
ok, what Lurrus build should we use as a sample? Give me a list, and I will add it there.
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I'm in the process of continuing my testing with this build and I've put it through another league to a 3-2 finish. I may have gotten lucky my first run, because it felt very clunky on this run through. Even Lurrus felt very underwhelming. Re-casting bauble from the graveyard was fine, but it felt like my opponents had better card advantage than I did while maintaining aggression, and my 3/2 barely kept up. I did also find that I topdecked a few baubles in places where I would have wanted anything else. I will continue testing with Lurrus of course, as a 3-2 isn't a bad record by any means. I'll go down to 2 emeria as you suggest, and look to make room for more things that lurrus can utilize such as Kami, and perhaps ranger-captain of eos. If Fluffy wishes to add a lurrus version of emeria to the primer that would be acceptable, although I think I would like to knock out a more focused version before I'm confident enough in any list.
I see the merit in your outlook on Kami, i'll reconsider how I assess it. I think I do also want to test a more flicker oriented build as well, with ephemerates.
I think my issue with the amulet titan matchup is that their decks are very resilient, and that i do not have as much experience playing the matchup with emeria as I need. The spreading seas tend to only be a small speedbump against them, as they can just play another bounce land and pick up the land with Seas on it. I did however find the matchup was slightly favoured when I was playing a flickerwisp emeria build with mainboard crucible of worlds (approximately mid may). Being able to use flickerwisp on their bounce lands was often the kind of tempo that i needed to keep them off of Primeval titans until I could set up Field of Ruins / Crucible locks. The "aether gust or bust" mentality has often come from the fact that my opponents will use summoner's pact to find their primeval titans, and a well timed aether gust can leave them without the requisite 2GG. In other words, its probably results oriented thinking and I should approach this matchup in a different way.
If I may ask, is there a particular list that you think I should try playing? I have a large amount of the staples on MTGO, and can rent extra cards like Teferi time raveler that I may not have, and I am open to trying new things.
sorry, forgot to say.. thanks for sharing your Lurrus list to the thread. It looks interesting.
is that list final? Or are you still in the process of improving it?
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Very much in the process of improving it. My second league with it felt much clunkier than my first.
I recorded my 5-0 League if anyone is interested in viewing: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLdUQ5yixGMinXckl_cYpXgcy202nwAEir
Its saved as unlisted, and I'm not looking for views or anything, just feedback! I love this archetype, but have no idea whats good or what isn't
Plichow, if you have no objections, [EDIT: THEN] I think the 5-0 list can stand on its own merits on the homepage as-is. Fluff, you should put the deck up as it was posted by Natesroom above. Plichow, you should then use your experience in these comments to say what land would best replace the third Emeria, and what should replace the two Void Mirror in the sideboard, unless you still feel that they were necessary. This would be all you would need to show new interested parties, unless you had any other clear improvements to report.
Reports, in a different sense, lead me to your 3-2 result. This is likely just variance catching up with you, but once again I urge you to focus less on the number than to share with us instead the cards, games, or plans you faced, and your own feelings about the legitimacy of your decisions given what occurred. There are thousands of interactions in a game of Magic, and the person who made the last decisive mistake has often thrown away any number of advantages along the line somewhere, so relevant learning in some senses can only begin after the match has been completed.
Moving on to other learning, then, I thank you for offering to re-evaluate the Kami of False Hope synergy. That is all I ask. It may still not be useful enough to warrant a slot, but I believe the context may have changed enough that it is worth testing again - specifically since the attitude towards its utility has to change so much in this shell. It seems possible to me that its effect might be better to lean on than 4-mana sweepers at the moment, and the utility of activating Ranger-Captain of Eos is also quite different in a hybrid Aggro/Attrition shell. The final point in favour of including these cards (my preference would be as a 3-2 split leaning towards the tutor effect which can also find Thraben Inspector) is that the density of 4-mana plays would be organically broken into a 3+1 sequence much more often, increasing your sequencing options either by playing Lurrus of the Dream-Den or Ranger-Captain into the Kami. In the right matchups, the idea would be simply to use the extra white card to support the Evoke on Solitude.
To find the space for these five new cards, I would probably start with moving your two Supreme Verdict to the sideboard for the appropriate contexts, then removing the Detention Sphere you were uncertain about, and trimming the Sun Titan down to a singleton and the Solitude count down to two. These are all merely based off of your reports, and would be subject to change pending preference, but the attempt to maximize Lurrus and include the Ranger-Captain may be a priority now, where the result would ideally be a much better Combo matchup in the maindeck, with later synergies 1) adding to pressure directly and 2) requiring quite specific alternative answers to break up. I will also take the time to look through your recording - thank you for the link - but will have to do so later since I must get back to work now.
I look forward to hearing more from you all soon!
-St¨¦phane G¨¦rard
(P.S. : Since you had asked for a list, my current intention is to target the format in a more explicit fashion maindeck by playing my preferred maximal attrition version - the most recent list for which being found in the second post down on page 77 of this thread - updated to replace the Wrath of God with the fourth Supreme Verdict, then the Settle the Wreckage with a second Teferi, Time Raveler, and finally the second Detention Sphere with a third Tef3ri. The lack of diversity against Meddling Mage appears less important at the moment, and instead of going the 6-sweeper route I believe the way forward is rather to tackle the abundance of countermagic and Delve head-on. Losing access to Settle the Wreckage and the second D-Sphere is a great pity, but I will need to start there to see how things go. I warn you, however, that I generally subject such things to exacting standards before I come to a conclusion about where the harder Control version needs to be pointed in this metagame. This typically means dozens of matches, and requires things to settle down somewhat as well before I am ready to make pronouncements about the viability of Attrition. The strictly binary result will be either "I think I have it" or "I do not recommend playing Emeria until bannings or new printings shift the format back to its strengths". I have generally found that there are around 2-4 months of the year where the deck is genuinely a good choice, and lean on experience, tuning, playskill, luck in pairings, and surprise factor to justify playing it otherwise with any semblance of competitive parity.)
It occurs to me that you should probably update the primer to include Solitude as a 3 out of 5 or 4 out of 5 stars card on the homepage [EDIT: in the "other spells" section]. Because of the "emergency-mode" zero-mana Evoke cost, it stands a near-infinitely better chance of being a stabilising play than any other 5-drop, and has a solid body and effect when hardcast. It competes strongly, in my mind, with Gideon Jura, Cavalier of Dawn, and Geist-Honored Monk on power level alone as a pure 5-mana play, but the extra utility of fail cases or the hypothetical absolute necessity of interaction before the fifth land can be counted on pushes its rating a clear cut above all the other choices in the slot (except Batterskull when Stoneforge Mystic can be counted on to be active). The exile clause on the pitch-cast mode hurts, but at least it puts itself in the graveyard in those scenarios for natural lategame synergy with Emeria, the Sky Ruin.
Hey Plichow, congratulations on the 5-0 and the 3-2!
Super cool to see a new Emeria build and your takes and perspective on it!
Over the times i started liking Spreading Seas less and less as a 2 mana cantrip that often doesn't do much and in the match ups that we really want to mess with their lands like Amulet Titan, they can just bounce it and proceed like it was nothing. I think it isn't the most competitive card right now in such a fast paced format like modern.
About Lurrus of the Dream-Den, I think it's a fantastic card but the 3cmc slot in UW is already so crowded and so good that i never got around to try it as it implied making too many changes to a deck i was mostly satisfied with. I think the Lurrus mini combo with Mishra's Bauble is obviously very good, but more in decks that need ways to get card advantage that they otherwise wouldn't get and decks that play many spells at instant speed. My question to you if given your experiance with this version of the deck and with this engine, do you think it offers better card advantage than the more standard versions with the deck, and is worth the cut on other powerfull 3 drops like Court Hussar or Teferi, Time Raveler.
Speaking of T3feri, i agree with St¨¦phene that is very well positioned in the meta right now, dealing with karnstructs, buying a turn while drawing a card and just shutting counterspell based decks and cascade decks down (of course they have answers, but it makes them have it or bust).
Overall i think most of my thoughts have already been expressed by all of you on these posts so i look forward to see what changes you make and for the next 5-0 :b
St¨¦phane, in regards yo your comments about my run on FNM.
I like your point about Teferi, Time Raveler in the Izzet Blitz match up. I never really liked taking land of my decks, but trimming Sun Titan to lower the curve makes perfect sense and allows me to use another powerfull card in this matchup that i didn't have room for.
ABout the Jund match up i think it is indeed correct to bring inSanctifier En-Vec and i considered it, but then opted not to put it because i though even with the protection, the grave ability wouldn't be as relevant, but with seasoned pyromancer, and Kroxa, Titan of Death's Hunger in the deck, i think it is 100% correct to bring it in. From my experience after taliking abut the sideboard choices with the Jund player, they usually yake removal out like Fatal Push, Abrupt Decay and even Assassin's Trophy. Not all of them but some because they find that having more threats is more important than removing our value creatures as we already gained value from them wich in my opinion seems like a fair assessment. I would never take Assassin's Trophy cause it just hit anything, including Emeria, The Sky Ruin, but i can see their train of thought. That's mostly why I bring Gideon of the Trials a bit more fearlessly. But I see your point in the value of Prismatic Ending so i will deffinitly try it in the future.
Have another FNM today but still without the 2 other Solitude so only the sideboard upgrades like Kataki, War's Wage and Sanctum Prelate. Will post results here when i can so hoping for the best!
Opted to leave Kataki, War's Wage out of the sideboard as i feel it's a nuke card targeted for artifact decks, but it doensn't give flexibility. It does one thing extremely well and that is it, and artifact decks not being prevelant in meta (at least for now) and still having access to 2 Seal of Cleansing from the side, makes me confortable enough to leave them out for now
Gideon of the Trials has been invaluable for me in many match ups, specially combo ones that don't care about targeted damage so at least for the time being i'm gonna keep them as they are. Excited to try Sanctum Prelateand how it changes my vision on the match ups. I expect it to be great against control (naming 2 or 4), combo naming whatever number their combo relies on and blitz naming 1.
I have disscussed this match up at lenght in previous posts so i won't go into much detail in here. Unfortuantly didn't manage to play Sanctum Prelate as i never drew it but Sanctifier en-Vec was nice as a blocker and to get rid of the second hit of their lava dart in one of the games.
Tried to take the 3 Sun Titanand 1 Emeria, the Sky Ruin to make the deck more low to to ground and getting the win through Stoneforge Mystic with Batterskull, Sword of Fire and Ice and Shadowspear. I always hate taking titans out but all the draws in the deck being so low to the ground allows me to play everything i want and deal with everything quite efectively.
Game 2: Won 2-0 against Izzet Blitz.
Same sideboard as the other game and once again didn't manage to draw Sanctum Prelate. Overall it went super well and in this particular game and never felt threatened, Teferi, Time Raveler and Gideon of the Trials being 2 very important cards to fight against Stormwing Entity.
Game 3: Won 2-0 against Orzhov Stoneblade
This wasn't the Grief and Ephemerate version but a grindier one with cards like,Liliana of the Veil, Dauthi Voidwalker, Damn,Vindicate and Tourach, Dread Cantor on the mainboard.
I love these midrange matchups because i feel it's where you can truly test the deck to it's limits. All cards in the deck have a chance to shine and buy time to reach the Emeria late game. Teferi, Time Raveler is a great card, bouncing their things to buy us time or bouncing our own things for value. Skyclave Apparition just deals with preety much anything they throw wich is amazing (nothing feels better than todecking one when they just played a Liliana of the Veil). Tourach, Dread Cantor is actually quite an annoying card that dodges almost anything except a wrath and can swing unblocked with swords very fast and for much value. Court Hussar was actually a MVP buying me a turn to not get hit by him and making him waste his Liliana of the Veil just to make me sac him as he was equiped with a Sword of Fire and Ice. Emeria was key to winning the matchup, getting it's activation, bringing Stoneforgy Mystic back and just hardcasting Kaldra Compleat.
Folowwoing St¨¦phane's advice against the Jund match up, tried to sideboard in Prismatic Ending to see how it went. Dealt with a Stoneforge Mystic cleanly on turn 2 to avoid bigger harms and that was basically it. It could have also been used for any other permanent the played asside from Tourach, Dread Cantor so overall i'm happy to bring it instead of a path to exile.
Followed very similar guidelines to the Jund matchup and i felt preety confortable in the win.
Let me know what you guys think and can be changed for next week (hopefully i'll have the solitude's missing by then as every time i played my one of in this deck it felt quite good. Never had to evoke it today, but just a hardcast at opponent's EOT and equipping a sword in our turn is just bruttal.
I don't have a lot of time to read through your breakdown in-depth today, so for the moment I will just say congratulations on the 3-0 and note that you played against three "fair" (combat damage) decks where I would expect Wall of Omens to be a good card. The result is therefore not altogether unexpected, though your sideboard was not optimized for this fact so this enables a positive inference to be made about how much the specialized hate slots "cost" across the board. I am now looking forward even more to seeing what Sanctum Prelate can do against more unfair strategies. Thanks for the report, and keep testing the cards!
(Oh, and one more note: what has your opinion been on Kaldra Compleat so far? I have it being quite high variance in matchups, which I am honestly not a huge fan of, but it essentially poses huge problems for opponents in many midrange matchups, so I am confident it has contributed to an overall positive trend in my deck's performance in general. Specifically re-setting it to hand with my extra copies of Teferi, Time Raveler - whether or not Stoneforge Mystic is active - has been very good, and it also helps seamlessly fill some portion of the 7-drop slot on the curve after Sun Titan can be cast but before a naturally-sequenced Emeria, the Sky Ruin can reliably become active. Can you talk about the specifics of the play patterns it has generated for you, as well as the amount it has actually contributed to your games since you started playing the card?)
Hoping this finds you well,
-St¨¦phane G¨¦rard
(P.S. : On a final thought - I think that given best play into Detention Sphere Jund pilots should be keeping or boarding in Maelstrom Pulse, if they have access to it, and that is the removal spell I primarily keep in mind when I discuss the matchup post-board. This, plus the presence of Lightning Bolt plus random Haste value is what makes me slightly less keen on [EDIT: BRINGING IN] Gideon of the Trials as a way to trade at better than a 1-for-1 rate.)
Hi all! Just wanted to update that I've played 2 more leagues with Lurrus-style to a 3-2 and a 2-3 finish. I think I've eventually realized that Lurrus is too underwhelming and too easy a target to survive. The lower land count was biting me as well, i was often stuck on 4, and could cast 2 wall of omens and end with none.
I did some testing on 2x Kami of False Hope and 3x Ranger-Captain of Eos as promised. Even though i did not win all my matches the pair performed quite well. It was for this reason that I decided to play 1 Kami of False Hope in Martyr Proc today in the modern challenge. I already play 4 Ranger-Captain so it was an easy include, and I ended up 5-3 for 29th place.
Going back to Emeria, I think I will be attempting some matches with the list you suggested Stephane. I think that yours is much better in creature matchups than mine, although I still do not understand all the nuances between deck differences, or when exactly emeria is a good choice of deck.
I wanted to say that I'm thankful this forum is still going, so that I can pick everyone's brains a little.
The bad part about playing only in paper tournments is sometimes the lack of variety in decks found and being able to play only once or twice a week. Even in bigger tournments i found mysled getting paired with mostly these midrange or aggro matchups that suit the deck well (lucky for me in the standings, but doesn't offer me insight into more difficult match ups) so hopefully you guys can fill me in on the matchups i'm not currently facing.
When you get a chance to see the more in deapth explanations i would be thrilled to read your comments about it.
On the subject of Kaldra Compleat, i think it's a wonderful card but not for every occasion, being perfect as part of the Stoneforge Mystic package. I think the Jund and Orzhov Stoneblade matchups and my experience examplify very well the power the card can have, almost single handily making the opponent quit the game with the lack of answers. But sometimes Batterskull is just better to stabilize. When i play Stoneforge i have my 3 options: Batterskull if i need to stabilize or know that Stoneforge is going to die and to use it as my 5 drop; Sword of Fire and Ice if i know Stoneforge Mystic is going to die or Batterskull is going to die when it gets put into play, as it just gives all my creatures a ton of value; or Kaldra Compleat to just smash face when we need quick hits and i know Stoneforge is going to live. In these last 6 games i never went for Kaldra Compleat as my first equipment but that was due to the nature of the matchups too. For example i've been playing against a lot of Blitz and i always take it out there so it my testing is still very little with the card. So far i'm liking the card as my third equipment but i'll keep you posted on how i feel about it in different match ups.
One question i've been wondering about is the debate for Prismatic Ending in the main instead of Path to Exile. Always loved Path, but with the shift to this new meat and with this new card, what is your opinion on this (and i of course extend this question to everyone as i'm quite interested in what you guys think)
Unfortunatly that was my fear with Lurrus of the Dream-Den... being killed and losing the sinergies that come with it. But with practice with different itterations of the deck i think you'll find the nuances between the different versions we posted here and will be able to chose your preffered version and take it to victory. Keep posting games here as all experiance is more than welcome and it will help us perfect all build and iterations of Emeria!
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Type the actual card name and number like - 4 Thraben Inspector then after the entire decklist add "[ deck][ /deck]" Before and after the text (ignore my added space inside the bracket) So like this:
You can add more text if you want to label sections:
Creature
3 Lurrus of the Dream-Den
4 Wall of Omens
1 Remorseful Cleric
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Thraben Inspector
2 Sun Titan
3 Solitude
Artifact
4 Mishra's Bauble
1 Mortarpod
1 Batterskull
1 Kaldra Compleat
4 Path to Exile
Sorcery
2 Supreme Verdict
Enchantements
1 Detention Sphere
4 Spreading Seas
Land
3 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
4 Flooded Strand
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Prairie Stream
1 Island
3 Field of Ruin
1 Ghost Quarter
8 Plains
4 Aether Gust
3 Aven Mindcensor
2 Sanctifier en-Vec
1 Remorseful Cleric
1 Deicide
2 Seal of Cleansing
2 Void Mirror
Congratulations on the 5-0, could you provide a little context for what exactly you played against and how the matches went? Were you lucky or unlucky in certain situations, and how might this affect your play in the future? What sideboard cards impressed you, which were lacklustre, and how do you think the synergies you were intending fit into the way things developed? These kinds of considerations are generally helpful for everyone, including the person posting, to contextualize the results. Not all 5-0 results are the same, and there are many useful things to be learnt even from 0-5 performances, so knowing more about how cards, strategies, or attitudes actually lined up in matches is what I try to emphasize.
Where decklists and cards are concerned, I can confirm Natesroom's comment, or even more simple is to use the icons that are found in the toolbar of the "Reply to this Topic" section at the bottom of the page. Should this be confusing there is within a darker gray area, above the space in which to write, a series of editorial images below the warning to respect the terms of service which extends partway across the page - I will recreate their groupings below:
(B/I/U/Abc) (bullet/number/item list) (picture/link/size/colour) (left/center/right indent) (spoiler/quote/smiley) (dice/card/cards/deck/mana symbols)
Hovering over each of these gives you their function, and clicking on any one of them auto-generates a code under your current cursor position which appears only during your generation and will enact the chosen function on the text in the middle of the back-to-back square brackets (in which position you will find your cursor immediately thereafter). The first five groups are for typesetting or copyediting considerations, and the last bracketed list is specifically designed for illuminating Magic discussions. It is genuinely a very strong advantage of this this website that these options are available to us in my opinion, and no doubt represents untold hours of coding for some dedicated soul, so let us celebrate it by using them whenever applicable!
One small quirk is that the spelling of cards must be exact down to the character when using the fourth from last of these, as will be demonstrated in the difference between Zap and Zap. In the second of these, I put an extra space before the capital "z", which the program will not recognize - resulting in a link such as the one above here^^^^^, whereas the first functions as intended to display the chosen image. Spelling mistakes are also apt to produce the same result, so when in doubt be sure to use the blue "preview" function below and to the right of the working text box to display a read-only copy of your current post which will produce exactly what you have generated up until that point. You are free to ignore capitalization if you wish, however (though I personally think that this is an Abomination unto the Gods of Proper English Writing). Once you become familiar with the shorthand, you will sometimes find it expedient to write out some individual codes yourself, which has very graciously been allowed for by the word processing, but in general these icons are of excellent utility.
On to your decklist, then! You have created an excellent environment for Lurrus of the Dream-Den, and your high density of self-replacing effects seems to have allowed you to trim on lands and relevantly to have displaced some of your copies of Sun Titan. Have you found yourself being hit more severely by graveyard hate as a result? I find that early game threats that exploit recursion are a liability post-board, where you are rewarding their Rest in Peace effects early in the game rather than passively discouraging it by making it dead in more circumstances. (By this I mean, essentially, are the 3/2 legendary lifelinking bodies pulling their weight in general?) I have a personal aversion to Mishra's Bauble in a deck trying to play "Mainphase Magic" as well, but in your list it seems less relevant than usual because of your aforementioned number of cantrip effects. How clean have you found your mana curve to be, specifically at the 2 and 3 mana points?
Speaking of Mana, as I move to your sideboard I would like to ask how many spells Void Mirror countered for you, and whether the anti-synergy with your Baubles ever came up. I had made note of it as a possible sideboard card, but it seemed a little too narrow in its coverage. If you have the time as well, could you detail how relevant you found Deicide? I assume it is primarily for Heliod, Sun-Crowned, but feel free to mention any other relevant targets which came up or were in mind when you added the card.
Congratulations again, and I look forward to your response!
-St¨¦phane G¨¦rard
I recorded all my matches, so I can review them later for more detail as I am currently at work, but I'll try to remember how I boarded/played.
I found that the curve was nice, I didn't have too many plays I wanted to make on turn 1, and found that lurrus was only sometimes a "3 drop", and got most of Lurrus's value on turn 5 by bringing back SFM or Wall.
R1 was GW enchantments. I was on the play and led with thraben inspector into SFM fetching kaldra, into playing kaldra turn 3 with a tapped land. That curve seems to work, tapped land on 1 and or 3 allows for SFM and SFM activation turns 2 and 3. I used a field of ruin to clean up some utopia sprawls and abundant growths later, and had a solitude evoke to remove that new 0/2 mana creature to get in. They found solitary confinement with shroud at 5 life and 1 card in hand, but i had a verdict to clean up their Sethis (and keep kaldra). Game 2 I had turn 2 and 3 seal of cleansings into lurrus for more seals.
My boarding here was:
+2 Seal of Cleansing
+1 deicide
-1 supreme verdict
-1 remorseful cleric
-1 mortarpod
R2 was UR Prowess. Game 1 I had turn 1 thraben inspector into turn 2 SFM getting batterskull. They had removal for SFM, so I played wall of omens and path on turn 3, and a verdict on 4 and batterskull on 5. They kind of went heavy on their creatures instead of card advantage spells, so the verdict left them with not much in hand. The BSkull just kind of went the whole way.
+2 santifier en-vec
+3 aether gust
-1 remorseful cleric
-4 spreading seas
G2 I had a turn 1 inspector, turn 2 sanctifier and just bricked their creatures. They tried to get around it by playing more creatures into it, but I had a verdict to clean up. Had a lurrus and SFM fetching batterskull to follow the wrath and they struggled for a few turns but didn't have much gas. I feel they had bad draws, as I've known UR prowess to grind well with large amounts of damage and that just didn't happen.
R3 was against amulet titan and I was on the play. I went thraben inspector into sfm into kaldra, and kept them from sticking a titan with solitude and Path. I think I got in for lethal right on the turn before I would have lost to Titan + Dryad + Valakut.
+4 aether gust
+3 aven mindcensor
+1 seal of cleansing
-1 thraben inspector
-4 spreading seas
-1 supreme verdict
-1 remorseful cleric
-1 mortarpod
G2 I tapped out for turn 2 SFM with solitude as backup and my opponent went triple amulet into triple titan and gave all 3 haste.
G3 they played turn 3 dryad, and I EOT cast Aven mindcensor so they cast summoners pact in response. I untapped and Field of ruined their Simic Growth chamber, then seal of cleansing'd their urza's saga and they couldn't pay for pact.
R4 was against BW Griefblade with mainboard Sorin, solemn visitor. They played a turn 2 SFM and fetched kaldra, so I evoked solitude to clear it, then played SFM and fetched my own Kaldra. They then pathed my SFM, and then went for 4 mana sorin, which i basically ignored because they just downticked it twice to make 2 vampires. I had a verdict, and then a solitude hardcasted on a dauthi voidwalker. They followed up with a solitude on my solitude, then inquisitioned me and saw sun titan 2 lands and conceded.
+2 sanctifier
+1 seal of cleansing
-1 remorseful cleric
-1 mortarpod
-1 supreme verdict
G2 i think they were stuck on lands with a silent clearing and a fetid heath, and i seas'd their clearing, then followed up with a quick clock.
R5 was against Mono W Death and Taxes. G1 they were stuck on lands and i was able to get kaldra off early. I used mortarpod effectively in this game to kill a vialed in Flickerwisp that bounced my kaldra token, and I had a 3/3 illusion from their skyclave that hit my lurrus. I then played a few creatures in and sacrificed them to mortarpod to close the game.
+2 seal of cleansing
+2 aven mindcensor
-4 spreading seas
G2 they were able to provide pressure after I kept a 5 land hand, then blew out a solitude evoke with a restoration angel and hit me for exactly lethal pretty quickly.
G3 I managed to get SFM going quickly into kaldra, and they were stuck on lands again as they mulled to 5. They played a wider board, so I used verdict to remove everything and keep my kaldra token around and they never found a flickerwisp.
So all in all, I'm pretty sure I just got lucky here. I never had emeria activate, and I never cast a sun titan. SFM did all the heavy lifting, but verdict was good, seas was good, and lurrus with bauble was actually pretty good too.
My SB was strange because i literally never brought in Void Mirror, and never really used remorseful cleric. I've been seeing a resurgence of heliod lately, so i wanted the deicide to turn off their combos. Dealing with a creature deck is much easier than a creature combo deck. I may also have had too much against Amulet Titan? But I've found that an aether gust at the right moment can be lights out.
It never came up, but spreading seas on urza's saga just kills it, and gives you the card draw trigger. I was hoping to abuse that interaction going into my league.
I think detention sphere was pretty bad in the main, but it felt like a necessity as a catch all.
Going forward, idk where i'll go with this list, any thoughts? I know that I cut mortarpod a lot, but it actually wasn't bad. I mainly included it because of all the reading i've done in this forum, and the amount of praise you all have given it.
Edit: I realized that I didn't touch on the recursive piece in lurrus vs RIP. I found that SFM was our threat that got around GY hate, and in mose cases opponents will bring in pieces to deal with that over lurrus, otherwise they may risk diluting their strategy too much. Lurrus is also just fine as a creature. Put batterskull on it and go to town.
Thank you very much for the additional detail! Your build seems solid, and as an alternative may drive towards a separate endgame where you maximize Lurrus of the Dream-Den even more (which might then incentivise reducing the copies of Emeria, the Sky Ruin). This may be very important, as it appears that the Lurrus/Bauble synergy is actually the most efficient raw card advantage engine in the format right now. My immediate candidates to support this would be to look at Selfless Spirit and Remorseful Cleric maindeck - moving some or all of the sweepers to the sideboard - while it might be much more viable for you to add a single Kami of False Hope for the soft-lock as supported by some copies of Ranger-Captain of Eos.
Staying on the theme of alternative cards, I would say that if Detention Sphere did not impress you you should try either Starstorm's Skyclave Apparition or the standby Teferi, Time Raveler, though this last card can never deal with Planeswalkers and the first is a liability against the current crop of Delve Creatures or any threats that go over the top (Primeval Titan,Niv-Mizzet Reborn, Teferi, Hero of Dominaria, etcetera). As far as Aether Gust is concerned, I think that it does a very good job at playing to the board when coming from behind in this shell, and so avoids being tarred with the purely reactive label which spells the "Countermagic Kiss of Death" in my opinion. I have had quite positive results with a singleton in the past, and it may be reasonably well-positioned moving forward. Four copies seems like an extreme amount, however, and I was shocked to read that you did not bring in all of them against your Prowess opponent, so I would agree that you are likely over-saturated on the effect. My immediate instinct is that Celestial Purge could find its way into your sideboard in some number to diversify a little on that front.
Your kind comments on Mortarpod are appreciated, it is a personal favourite of mine at establishing synergies while remaining a board-relevant topdeck and keeping Equipment counts high well into the lategame to ensure recursive Stoneforge Mystic value, but 1-toughness plays are comparatively rare currently, which takes a little of its shine away when it does not contribute to the removal suite. I was recently debating going down to 2 from 3, but I would be extremely reluctant to go any lower without other ways to keep the graveyard stocked when sweepers come out against Combo decks. Your frequent removal of the card makes me assume you are ending games well before recursion can run you out of targets, leading me back to my point from paragraph 1 of this response. Going back to the subject of the removal suite itself, were you able to form an impression of Solitude which might colour the impression of those who have not yet played with it? Where was it good, where bad, and do you think that you had it right with 3 copies?
Hoping this finds you well,
-St¨¦phane G¨¦rard
A few things about the deck!
I think I agree that Lurrus is an avenue to be explored. That engine is just so strong. I'm unsure if selfless spirit is the way to go, but I'm sure its worth exploring. Mishra's bauble was actually quite good, you can use it on yourself to see if you want to shuffle the top card away with a fetchland or SFM, or make a different play and draw that card. I dont think it takes much away from our "sorcery speed-ish" style, as we can almost hide cards from thoughtseize decks by waiting until the opponents' turn to use it.
My main deck is actually Martyr utilizing abiding grace, so I'm very familiar with ranger captain of eos and kami of false hope. They may have utility here, but in my experience too often kami just eats a removal spell on your own end step.
About aether gust in the SB: i have been playing 4 because often you need it very early against the amulet titan decks, otherwise you just lose to their fast titans or the value they procure (after pathing a resolved one). I generally bring in less against prowess because i dont want to get stuck in a situation where my opponent has a stormwing entity i am unable to answer.
It may be correct to go down to 3, however.. I'm unsure.
I have played both Teferi Time Raveler and Skyclave apparition in this sort of shell in the past and found that they are good enough. Teferi could a good choice at the moment as well because of his interaction with cascade spells. That said, i found apparition very vulnerable, and often left pesky tokens that i had to spend resources dealing with later. I would much prefer to play skyclave apparition alongside ephemerate to try to extract maximum value from it, and that probably also means playing flickerwisp/charming prince, and i know how you feel about those.
I think at the moment i will continue to try the detention sphere and find out exactly what i don't like about it.
The solitudes were great. I came to the decision to play 3 because I had done some reading into the "stabilizing" theory of geist-honored monk. Solitude is basically that as its removal on flash etb with lifelink and a pretty cool body, and has a special other mode where you can use it early if you really need to use the panic button. I use it most often to answer early primeval titans, or stoneforge mystics that fetch kaldra, as those decks will never be able to hard cast it. You potentially could wait for them to put kaldra into play, but i dont want to also be surprised by a batterskull. As our deck is happy to draw lands, hard casting a solitude is wonderfully easy, and getting one back with emeria is gravy. I think 2 or 3 is probably a good number. I like them in multiples, but dont want to be too flooded.
Good points on the Mishra's Bauble synergies and their interaction with shuffle effects, I broadly agree. I think there is still a cost to be paid when you reach the lategame of "losing on board with no cards in hand" and simply need access to a spell or seventh Plains immediately, but this is heavily outweighed by the advantage that can be accrued early with it by Lurrus of the Dream-Den. There is a secondary concern as well which has to do with deck space to fit all the necessary effects in the grindier control shell, but since both of these are much more relevant to my own build preference I will leave things at that. Speaking of builds, however:
Fluff - I think it may be very important now to get at least one Lurrus build on the homepage, since the format seems most open to it rather than control. If you think your list was roughly viable, Plichow, would you be willing to support it for Fluff to make it available for all those seeking help with the strategy? I would immediately recommend going down to 2 Emeria, the Sky Ruin in it, since your recursion is set up earlier in other ways and the tapland is a more severe drawback in the early game, but you should also take the chance to make any adjustments that you find relevant now in pursuit of a preliminary list where the land plays more of a backup role.
Back to your list in particular, then, I have also invested some amount of time into an 80-card Yorion MartyrProc build, which works extremely well to re-trigger Ranger-Captain of Eos and Ranger of Eos in setting up the Kami lock while fuelling white spells in hand to feed Martyr of Sands, and you will forgive me, I hope, if I think that you may find that your initial sentiment about its death in end-step to removal is a little off-base here. The applications of the Kami's Fog effect takes on a very different texture when it is used to back up pressure rather than relied on for staying alive. I may be wrong about how your list actually finishes its games, but having access to an alternative soak for removal to stretch opponents seems as though it may be beneficial to give you a unique advantage in racing situations, while providing a very reasonable fail-case alternative "out" to lethal damage in other contexts.
Other contexts being in question, then, I think that the interaction between Lurrus and immediate Flicker effects like Ephemerate is noteworthy, where being able to put in a new "Lurrus" object for game rules purposes allows multiple graveyard rebuys, while providing protection or interaction in many other ways, and obviously having an extremely powerful additional dynamic with Solitude. If I again take off my "Emeria Attrition/Control" googles, this is something I think definitely warrants testing, and may bring Charming Prince and Flickerwisp back into the picture as viable effects (the first of these already having synergy with the Legend). The "end-step" clause on the two creatures is - as with Glimmerpoint Stag in my original Standard deck - an unfortunate one in many respects, but they have a great deal of value to offer in the right shell. Perhaps this is leaning too far into things, but I would not be surprised if this were just a few too many powerful synergies to ignore.
As a final note, I may need to ask how exactly you see the Titan matchup being "Aether Gust or bust" early on, since despite being unfavourable I think of the matchup as a winnable one with zero copies of the card in my 75. Am I overstating your position on the card, or is there possibly some dynamic that I am taking advantage of better in my build? I thought that you would certainly have a much easier time with 4 Spreading Seas and better early aggression than me maindecked, but perhaps I misjudged something? I suppose missing out on the extra Ghost Quarter and the Crucible of Worlds might account for some of that, but I wanted to check in case it was anything else.
Let me know how you all feel, and best of luck to everyone with your testing!
-St¨¦phane G¨¦rard
ok, what Lurrus build should we use as a sample? Give me a list, and I will add it there.
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I'm in the process of continuing my testing with this build and I've put it through another league to a 3-2 finish. I may have gotten lucky my first run, because it felt very clunky on this run through. Even Lurrus felt very underwhelming. Re-casting bauble from the graveyard was fine, but it felt like my opponents had better card advantage than I did while maintaining aggression, and my 3/2 barely kept up. I did also find that I topdecked a few baubles in places where I would have wanted anything else. I will continue testing with Lurrus of course, as a 3-2 isn't a bad record by any means. I'll go down to 2 emeria as you suggest, and look to make room for more things that lurrus can utilize such as Kami, and perhaps ranger-captain of eos. If Fluffy wishes to add a lurrus version of emeria to the primer that would be acceptable, although I think I would like to knock out a more focused version before I'm confident enough in any list.
I see the merit in your outlook on Kami, i'll reconsider how I assess it. I think I do also want to test a more flicker oriented build as well, with ephemerates.
I think my issue with the amulet titan matchup is that their decks are very resilient, and that i do not have as much experience playing the matchup with emeria as I need. The spreading seas tend to only be a small speedbump against them, as they can just play another bounce land and pick up the land with Seas on it. I did however find the matchup was slightly favoured when I was playing a flickerwisp emeria build with mainboard crucible of worlds (approximately mid may). Being able to use flickerwisp on their bounce lands was often the kind of tempo that i needed to keep them off of Primeval titans until I could set up Field of Ruins / Crucible locks. The "aether gust or bust" mentality has often come from the fact that my opponents will use summoner's pact to find their primeval titans, and a well timed aether gust can leave them without the requisite 2GG. In other words, its probably results oriented thinking and I should approach this matchup in a different way.
If I may ask, is there a particular list that you think I should try playing? I have a large amount of the staples on MTGO, and can rent extra cards like Teferi time raveler that I may not have, and I am open to trying new things.
sorry, forgot to say.. thanks for sharing your Lurrus list to the thread. It looks interesting.
is that list final? Or are you still in the process of improving it?
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Very much in the process of improving it. My second league with it felt much clunkier than my first.
I recorded my 5-0 League if anyone is interested in viewing: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLdUQ5yixGMinXckl_cYpXgcy202nwAEir
Its saved as unlisted, and I'm not looking for views or anything, just feedback! I love this archetype, but have no idea whats good or what isn't
Plichow, if you have no objections, [EDIT: THEN] I think the 5-0 list can stand on its own merits on the homepage as-is. Fluff, you should put the deck up as it was posted by Natesroom above. Plichow, you should then use your experience in these comments to say what land would best replace the third Emeria, and what should replace the two Void Mirror in the sideboard, unless you still feel that they were necessary. This would be all you would need to show new interested parties, unless you had any other clear improvements to report.
Reports, in a different sense, lead me to your 3-2 result. This is likely just variance catching up with you, but once again I urge you to focus less on the number than to share with us instead the cards, games, or plans you faced, and your own feelings about the legitimacy of your decisions given what occurred. There are thousands of interactions in a game of Magic, and the person who made the last decisive mistake has often thrown away any number of advantages along the line somewhere, so relevant learning in some senses can only begin after the match has been completed.
Moving on to other learning, then, I thank you for offering to re-evaluate the Kami of False Hope synergy. That is all I ask. It may still not be useful enough to warrant a slot, but I believe the context may have changed enough that it is worth testing again - specifically since the attitude towards its utility has to change so much in this shell. It seems possible to me that its effect might be better to lean on than 4-mana sweepers at the moment, and the utility of activating Ranger-Captain of Eos is also quite different in a hybrid Aggro/Attrition shell. The final point in favour of including these cards (my preference would be as a 3-2 split leaning towards the tutor effect which can also find Thraben Inspector) is that the density of 4-mana plays would be organically broken into a 3+1 sequence much more often, increasing your sequencing options either by playing Lurrus of the Dream-Den or Ranger-Captain into the Kami. In the right matchups, the idea would be simply to use the extra white card to support the Evoke on Solitude.
To find the space for these five new cards, I would probably start with moving your two Supreme Verdict to the sideboard for the appropriate contexts, then removing the Detention Sphere you were uncertain about, and trimming the Sun Titan down to a singleton and the Solitude count down to two. These are all merely based off of your reports, and would be subject to change pending preference, but the attempt to maximize Lurrus and include the Ranger-Captain may be a priority now, where the result would ideally be a much better Combo matchup in the maindeck, with later synergies 1) adding to pressure directly and 2) requiring quite specific alternative answers to break up. I will also take the time to look through your recording - thank you for the link - but will have to do so later since I must get back to work now.
I look forward to hearing more from you all soon!
-St¨¦phane G¨¦rard
(P.S. : Since you had asked for a list, my current intention is to target the format in a more explicit fashion maindeck by playing my preferred maximal attrition version - the most recent list for which being found in the second post down on page 77 of this thread - updated to replace the Wrath of God with the fourth Supreme Verdict, then the Settle the Wreckage with a second Teferi, Time Raveler, and finally the second Detention Sphere with a third Tef3ri. The lack of diversity against Meddling Mage appears less important at the moment, and instead of going the 6-sweeper route I believe the way forward is rather to tackle the abundance of countermagic and Delve head-on. Losing access to Settle the Wreckage and the second D-Sphere is a great pity, but I will need to start there to see how things go. I warn you, however, that I generally subject such things to exacting standards before I come to a conclusion about where the harder Control version needs to be pointed in this metagame. This typically means dozens of matches, and requires things to settle down somewhat as well before I am ready to make pronouncements about the viability of Attrition. The strictly binary result will be either "I think I have it" or "I do not recommend playing Emeria until bannings or new printings shift the format back to its strengths". I have generally found that there are around 2-4 months of the year where the deck is genuinely a good choice, and lean on experience, tuning, playskill, luck in pairings, and surprise factor to justify playing it otherwise with any semblance of competitive parity.)
It occurs to me that you should probably update the primer to include Solitude as a 3 out of 5 or 4 out of 5 stars card on the homepage [EDIT: in the "other spells" section]. Because of the "emergency-mode" zero-mana Evoke cost, it stands a near-infinitely better chance of being a stabilising play than any other 5-drop, and has a solid body and effect when hardcast. It competes strongly, in my mind, with Gideon Jura, Cavalier of Dawn, and Geist-Honored Monk on power level alone as a pure 5-mana play, but the extra utility of fail cases or the hypothetical absolute necessity of interaction before the fifth land can be counted on pushes its rating a clear cut above all the other choices in the slot (except Batterskull when Stoneforge Mystic can be counted on to be active). The exile clause on the pitch-cast mode hurts, but at least it puts itself in the graveyard in those scenarios for natural lategame synergy with Emeria, the Sky Ruin.
Hoping this finds you well,
-St¨¦phane G¨¦rard
Super cool to see a new Emeria build and your takes and perspective on it!
Over the times i started liking Spreading Seas less and less as a 2 mana cantrip that often doesn't do much and in the match ups that we really want to mess with their lands like Amulet Titan, they can just bounce it and proceed like it was nothing. I think it isn't the most competitive card right now in such a fast paced format like modern.
About Lurrus of the Dream-Den, I think it's a fantastic card but the 3cmc slot in UW is already so crowded and so good that i never got around to try it as it implied making too many changes to a deck i was mostly satisfied with. I think the Lurrus mini combo with Mishra's Bauble is obviously very good, but more in decks that need ways to get card advantage that they otherwise wouldn't get and decks that play many spells at instant speed. My question to you if given your experiance with this version of the deck and with this engine, do you think it offers better card advantage than the more standard versions with the deck, and is worth the cut on other powerfull 3 drops like Court Hussar or Teferi, Time Raveler.
Speaking of T3feri, i agree with St¨¦phene that is very well positioned in the meta right now, dealing with karnstructs, buying a turn while drawing a card and just shutting counterspell based decks and cascade decks down (of course they have answers, but it makes them have it or bust).
Overall i think most of my thoughts have already been expressed by all of you on these posts so i look forward to see what changes you make and for the next 5-0 :b
St¨¦phane, in regards yo your comments about my run on FNM.
I like your point about Teferi, Time Raveler in the Izzet Blitz match up. I never really liked taking land of my decks, but trimming Sun Titan to lower the curve makes perfect sense and allows me to use another powerfull card in this matchup that i didn't have room for.
ABout the Jund match up i think it is indeed correct to bring inSanctifier En-Vec and i considered it, but then opted not to put it because i though even with the protection, the grave ability wouldn't be as relevant, but with seasoned pyromancer, and Kroxa, Titan of Death's Hunger in the deck, i think it is 100% correct to bring it in. From my experience after taliking abut the sideboard choices with the Jund player, they usually yake removal out like Fatal Push, Abrupt Decay and even Assassin's Trophy. Not all of them but some because they find that having more threats is more important than removing our value creatures as we already gained value from them wich in my opinion seems like a fair assessment. I would never take Assassin's Trophy cause it just hit anything, including Emeria, The Sky Ruin, but i can see their train of thought. That's mostly why I bring Gideon of the Trials a bit more fearlessly. But I see your point in the value of Prismatic Ending so i will deffinitly try it in the future.
Have another FNM today but still without the 2 other Solitude so only the sideboard upgrades like Kataki, War's Wage and Sanctum Prelate. Will post results here when i can so hoping for the best!
1 Sanctifier En-Vec
2 Damping Sphere
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Seal of Cleansing
1 Shadowspear
2 Prismatic Ending
2 Gideon of the Trials
2 Sanctum Prelate
Opted to leave Kataki, War's Wage out of the sideboard as i feel it's a nuke card targeted for artifact decks, but it doensn't give flexibility. It does one thing extremely well and that is it, and artifact decks not being prevelant in meta (at least for now) and still having access to 2 Seal of Cleansing from the side, makes me confortable enough to leave them out for now
Gideon of the Trials has been invaluable for me in many match ups, specially combo ones that don't care about targeted damage so at least for the time being i'm gonna keep them as they are. Excited to try Sanctum Prelateand how it changes my vision on the match ups. I expect it to be great against control (naming 2 or 4), combo naming whatever number their combo relies on and blitz naming 1.
Played against 2 Izzet Blitz and 1 Orhzov Stoneblade.
Game 1: Won 2-1 against Izzet Blitz.
Sideboarded out: 3 Sun Titan, 1 Emeria, the Sky Ruin, 2 Elite Spellbinder, 1 Teferi, Time Raveler, 1 Kaldra Compleat
Sideboarded in: 2 Gideon of the Trials, 2 Sanctum Prelate, 2 Prismatic Ending, 1 Shadowspear, 1 Sanctifier en-Vec
I have disscussed this match up at lenght in previous posts so i won't go into much detail in here. Unfortuantly didn't manage to play Sanctum Prelate as i never drew it but Sanctifier en-Vec was nice as a blocker and to get rid of the second hit of their lava dart in one of the games.
Tried to take the 3 Sun Titanand 1 Emeria, the Sky Ruin to make the deck more low to to ground and getting the win through Stoneforge Mystic with Batterskull, Sword of Fire and Ice and Shadowspear. I always hate taking titans out but all the draws in the deck being so low to the ground allows me to play everything i want and deal with everything quite efectively.
Game 2: Won 2-0 against Izzet Blitz.
Same sideboard as the other game and once again didn't manage to draw Sanctum Prelate. Overall it went super well and in this particular game and never felt threatened, Teferi, Time Raveler and Gideon of the Trials being 2 very important cards to fight against Stormwing Entity.
Game 3: Won 2-0 against Orzhov Stoneblade
This wasn't the Grief and Ephemerate version but a grindier one with cards like,Liliana of the Veil, Dauthi Voidwalker, Damn,Vindicate and Tourach, Dread Cantor on the mainboard.
I love these midrange matchups because i feel it's where you can truly test the deck to it's limits. All cards in the deck have a chance to shine and buy time to reach the Emeria late game. Teferi, Time Raveler is a great card, bouncing their things to buy us time or bouncing our own things for value. Skyclave Apparition just deals with preety much anything they throw wich is amazing (nothing feels better than todecking one when they just played a Liliana of the Veil). Tourach, Dread Cantor is actually quite an annoying card that dodges almost anything except a wrath and can swing unblocked with swords very fast and for much value. Court Hussar was actually a MVP buying me a turn to not get hit by him and making him waste his Liliana of the Veil just to make me sac him as he was equiped with a Sword of Fire and Ice. Emeria was key to winning the matchup, getting it's activation, bringing Stoneforgy Mystic back and just hardcasting Kaldra Compleat.
Sideboarded out: 1Path to Exile, 2 Elite Spellbinder.
Sideboarded in: 1 Sanctifier en-Vec, 2 Prismatic Ending
Folowwoing St¨¦phane's advice against the Jund match up, tried to sideboard in Prismatic Ending to see how it went. Dealt with a Stoneforge Mystic cleanly on turn 2 to avoid bigger harms and that was basically it. It could have also been used for any other permanent the played asside from Tourach, Dread Cantor so overall i'm happy to bring it instead of a path to exile.
Followed very similar guidelines to the Jund matchup and i felt preety confortable in the win.
Let me know what you guys think and can be changed for next week (hopefully i'll have the solitude's missing by then as every time i played my one of in this deck it felt quite good. Never had to evoke it today, but just a hardcast at opponent's EOT and equipping a sword in our turn is just bruttal.
This is the list i went with today:
3 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
6 Snow-Covered Plains
1 Raugrin Triome
3 Hallowed Fountain
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Prairie Stream
1 Snow-Covered Island
3 Field of Ruin
3 Flooded Strand
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Skyclave Apparition
3 Charming Prince
2 Elite Spellbinder
4 Wall of Omens
1 Solitude
2 Court Hussar
3 Sun Titan
1 Kaldra Compleat
3 Teferi, Time Raveler
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
3 Supreme Verdict
4 Path to Exile
1 Batterskull
2 Remorseful Cleric
2 Damping Sphere
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Seal of Cleansing
1 Shadowspear
2 Prismatic Ending
2 Gideon of the Trials
2 Sanctum Prelate
1 Sanctifier en-Vec
I don't have a lot of time to read through your breakdown in-depth today, so for the moment I will just say congratulations on the 3-0 and note that you played against three "fair" (combat damage) decks where I would expect Wall of Omens to be a good card. The result is therefore not altogether unexpected, though your sideboard was not optimized for this fact so this enables a positive inference to be made about how much the specialized hate slots "cost" across the board. I am now looking forward even more to seeing what Sanctum Prelate can do against more unfair strategies. Thanks for the report, and keep testing the cards!
(Oh, and one more note: what has your opinion been on Kaldra Compleat so far? I have it being quite high variance in matchups, which I am honestly not a huge fan of, but it essentially poses huge problems for opponents in many midrange matchups, so I am confident it has contributed to an overall positive trend in my deck's performance in general. Specifically re-setting it to hand with my extra copies of Teferi, Time Raveler - whether or not Stoneforge Mystic is active - has been very good, and it also helps seamlessly fill some portion of the 7-drop slot on the curve after Sun Titan can be cast but before a naturally-sequenced Emeria, the Sky Ruin can reliably become active. Can you talk about the specifics of the play patterns it has generated for you, as well as the amount it has actually contributed to your games since you started playing the card?)
Hoping this finds you well,
-St¨¦phane G¨¦rard
(P.S. : On a final thought - I think that given best play into Detention Sphere Jund pilots should be keeping or boarding in Maelstrom Pulse, if they have access to it, and that is the removal spell I primarily keep in mind when I discuss the matchup post-board. This, plus the presence of Lightning Bolt plus random Haste value is what makes me slightly less keen on [EDIT: BRINGING IN] Gideon of the Trials as a way to trade at better than a 1-for-1 rate.)
I did some testing on 2x Kami of False Hope and 3x Ranger-Captain of Eos as promised. Even though i did not win all my matches the pair performed quite well. It was for this reason that I decided to play 1 Kami of False Hope in Martyr Proc today in the modern challenge. I already play 4 Ranger-Captain so it was an easy include, and I ended up 5-3 for 29th place.
Going back to Emeria, I think I will be attempting some matches with the list you suggested Stephane. I think that yours is much better in creature matchups than mine, although I still do not understand all the nuances between deck differences, or when exactly emeria is a good choice of deck.
I wanted to say that I'm thankful this forum is still going, so that I can pick everyone's brains a little.
Cheers and hope everyone is well!
The bad part about playing only in paper tournments is sometimes the lack of variety in decks found and being able to play only once or twice a week. Even in bigger tournments i found mysled getting paired with mostly these midrange or aggro matchups that suit the deck well (lucky for me in the standings, but doesn't offer me insight into more difficult match ups) so hopefully you guys can fill me in on the matchups i'm not currently facing.
When you get a chance to see the more in deapth explanations i would be thrilled to read your comments about it.
On the subject of Kaldra Compleat, i think it's a wonderful card but not for every occasion, being perfect as part of the Stoneforge Mystic package. I think the Jund and Orzhov Stoneblade matchups and my experience examplify very well the power the card can have, almost single handily making the opponent quit the game with the lack of answers. But sometimes Batterskull is just better to stabilize. When i play Stoneforge i have my 3 options: Batterskull if i need to stabilize or know that Stoneforge is going to die and to use it as my 5 drop; Sword of Fire and Ice if i know Stoneforge Mystic is going to die or Batterskull is going to die when it gets put into play, as it just gives all my creatures a ton of value; or Kaldra Compleat to just smash face when we need quick hits and i know Stoneforge is going to live. In these last 6 games i never went for Kaldra Compleat as my first equipment but that was due to the nature of the matchups too. For example i've been playing against a lot of Blitz and i always take it out there so it my testing is still very little with the card. So far i'm liking the card as my third equipment but i'll keep you posted on how i feel about it in different match ups.
One question i've been wondering about is the debate for Prismatic Ending in the main instead of Path to Exile. Always loved Path, but with the shift to this new meat and with this new card, what is your opinion on this (and i of course extend this question to everyone as i'm quite interested in what you guys think)
Unfortunatly that was my fear with Lurrus of the Dream-Den... being killed and losing the sinergies that come with it. But with practice with different itterations of the deck i think you'll find the nuances between the different versions we posted here and will be able to chose your preffered version and take it to victory. Keep posting games here as all experiance is more than welcome and it will help us perfect all build and iterations of Emeria!